Interview

Interview: Judith Leszczynski (Part 2)

The second part of an interview with my Grandmother.

This is the second part of an interview I had with my grandmother on January 15th, 2017. You can listen to or read the first part here: https://panoplit.org/2017/11/06/interview-judy-pt1/

My grandmother is 76 years old and played Dungeons & Dragons when it came out in the 70s. I wish I could distill every cool thing she is, but this interview is just about that one thing.


(My grandmother is taking her medicine during the first part of this interview, thus the background noise.)

 

Not thinking outside the box, and the rule playing and everything.

 

Right.

 

And I realize that’s how I was educated, in school. Never encouraged to go- ‘this is the way you do it, this is the answer. No, that’s foolish, you do it this way.’ That’s- especially grade school.

 

Really? So you think that that affected your playing Dungeon’s & Dragons?

 

Yeah, it affected my thinking. I mean I can see how the training- it’s so cool now kids are given this creative, creative license.

 

Right.

 

It’s, yeah I know, very much. And I don’t know how much of that was cold German,* I don’t know how education was, then, or what they did in the neighborhood schools. I don’t know.

 

Right. That’s interesting. Oh, I remember what I was going to ask you. Finish your water and I’ll-

 

Bob had journaling. I had a hard time. I did not understand what journaling was.

 

In school?

 

Mm hmm.

 

So. Oh, so as far as it being created in Wisconsin, Dungeons & Dragons, do you know anything about the people who created Dungeons & Dragons, or do you, did you hear any stories about who made it?

 

No.

 

So it was just a prepackaged game that you got?

 

Right.

 

Was there- when you were playing, was there ever a time when you thought, ‘Oh, this is more, this is a boy, boy game,’ or like if this was-

 

Oh, no, not in this house. No such thing.

 

Alright, okay.

 

Although I have to say I did bend a little bit into the culture. John had a doll.

 

Right.

 

A couple dolls. And I was just thinking, ‘Oh, that’s pretty nice.’ He had older sisters, so it was legitimate to him to have a doll.

 

Right.

 

And then I got mad at myself for even thinking that. Because I had a girlfriend who had a son and she bought him a doll.

 

Right.

 

A baby doll to play with.

 

Yeah like Nick, Nick had his two baby dolls. Those were his favorite toys. He has always wanted to be a Dad, you can tell. Of course he’s the first one to have a child.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

 

Yeah, okay so there was no- and like playing the video games, you never thought like you know, I am- you know, why would women want to hack this monster to pieces?

 

No. No, no. No. Never considered it.

 

Have you heard of that since? Has that been an idea that you have heard of from other people?

 

Oh, yes. Yeah. Definitely. They didn’t know what, you know. And I never understood, but see I wasn’t brought up that way. I was always brought up that-

 

Right.

 

The immediate family. Other parts, distant relatives, cousins and that, they would, and aunts and uncles and that, ‘Oh, that’s not something you should be doing.’ Well, why not? You know.

 

Right.

 

But my mother was very much, and my grandmother was very much, ‘You do what you’ve got the talent for and what you can do.’ Nothing about male and female roles.

 

Right, okay. When you were, so where did you hear that, you know, especially for video games and for Dungeons & Dragons, any even Science Fiction, did you ever hear that women shouldn’t read Science Fiction and that that’s something men write, and men read? Was that ever an idea you heard of?

 

No. No.

 

Okay. But for the video games? Where were you hearing that that was, you know, like a boy activity? Was that from the media, or was it like your friends? Or just the time?

 

I want to say just the time with that talk. And girls just didn’t do that. It was more like they weren’t interested in that. I never thought it’d be, if you shouldn’t be doing that.

 

Right.

 

Or that it was a boy’s role. It was more like, well they didn’t have the interest, they didn’t care.

 

Okay. When you were playing Dungeon’s & Dragons, so you thought it was really cool to play a woman, you know, a magic user.

 

Yeah, that may be a little bit of the background I didn’t pick in the end. I wanted to be a woman, a woman in power.

 

Right, yeah, so that’s-

 

How I thought about it then, I don’t quite remember.

 

Okay. When you were reading, or playing, when you were playing those video games, did you ever interact with like, or playing Dungeons & Dragons, the idea of like powerless women. Like damsels in towers that you have to rescue, or, you know, women who you were offered their hand in marriage or something. Was that ever something that entered into those storylines? Or was that not the kind of games that you played?

 

I don’t think they were the kinds of games that we played. But I probably would have- I mean, I’m not trying to say that I’m completely liberated, but,-

 

Right, right.

 

I was very much affected by the culture I was in, but when I personally wanted to do something and that, I never thought, ‘well, no I’m a girl, I can’t do that.’

 

Okay. When you were looking at, like, the art for Dungeons & Dragons, do you remember any of the art? -I think that’s you.

 

(answers phone, interview paused.)

 

So as far as the art for these games, for like the roleplaying games, did you ever, especially in the 70s when you guys were playing, did any of it bother you at all, or was it just Fantasy art as far as you were concerned?

 

It was like Fantasy art. I don’t, never felt, anything that ‘oh that’s bothersome’, or you know. The closest thing was the David Bowie album- Diamond Dogs.

 

Diamond Dogs, that bothered you?

 

Yeah.

 

Alright. That’s awesome, so as far as being able to play a female character in Dungeons & Dragons, so a woman character, was that a totally new thing for you, or was it just, like was that something novel for the game for you? Is that something that drew you?

 

I think so, yes. I would say there was something novel about it. Yeah, I think so, I think I was happy to do that, because I thought there, ‘Oh, okay, I can do this.’

 

Right.

 

Yeah, I think so. I really can’t add to that, I guess.

 

Yeah, that’s okay.

 

As you can tell, I’m not really deep thinking here. I was very accepting of, you know, whatever the game was. I never, especially pictures, I mean, that’s art work. I never really…

 

Well, you sound like an ideal player, if you were just ready to go with whatever was happening in the game. That sounds, you know, like what every GM wants the players to do.

 

Oh, really?

 

Yeah, because sometimes- yeah, sometimes they challenge you, or they decide, ‘oh, yes, we’re gonna go off on our own and we’re gonna look behind this door that was locked, we’re gonna kick it open.’ Even if the GM doesn’t want them to go there.

 

Oh, okay.

 

I mean, there’s arguments that you shouldn’t give them the option, then but-

 

That’s, that’s kind of cool. That’s creative.

 

Yeah.

 

It’s creative doing that.

 

Did you ever do anything like that when you were gaming, or was it always very, ‘This is what we are told we’re doing, and I’m going down this hallway because I was told I was doing that’?

 

Exactly.

 

Okay. Awesome. Well yeah, that’s- I mean, was there anything else you wanted to share about your experiences, or your memories of it?

 

I remember being interested or exciting about it, because it was something new.

 

Okay.

 

And it was all very much being with the family.

 

Right, a group experience.

 

Yeah, doing that. RIght, yeah.

 

Is it something you would be interested in doing now?

 

Yes and I probably would approach it differently. Yes, I would be interested in doing it now.

 

Oh, really?

 

Sure.

 

Would you be interested in going to conventions now? What do you think? Because there are whole conventions around just gaming.

 

Well, I would be interested in that to see if I liked it, if that’s interesting, if that’s something – oh, sure. It’s a new adventure.

 

That’s a great attitude. Alright, well thank you, that’s all I had.

 

You’re very welcome. I hope it’s helpful to you.

 

It was, thank you.

 

You’ve got me thinking, now. You’ve got me thinking.

 

Got you thinking about it? That’s good. Have you played any roleplaying games on the internet since those have been coming out?

 

No.

 

No?

 

No. They’ll take- I don’t remember the name of the game. They’ll take a game and they’ll make it like mahjong. Is that how you pronounce it?

 

Yeah.

 

But the pictures are monsters.

 

Oh, I think you had a World of Warcraft one?

 

Yes, that’s it.

 

And you recognized that?

 

Yeah.

 

I still do it.

 

You still play your World of Warcraft mahjong? That’s a lot of fun. That’s cool.

 

And I’m really too chicken to get anymore games, because I’m always afraid of getting a virus.

 

Oh really?

 

Oh yes.

 

Oh, we could set you up. Do you ever play Fantasy or SciFi games on your Wii or anything? Or on any of those consoles?

 

No, no I don’t have any games like that.

 

Okay, would you be interested in those games?

 

Sure, it’s just that inaction on my part. I’m not seeking-

 

Yeah, no worries.

 

It out and that, and doing- you know, because I play the Wii. That is part of the physical therapy. I play because of the physical therapy.

 

Right.

 

So, but I just never seek it out.

 

There are some great starship horror games that came out.

 

Oh, really?

 

Would you be interested in those? What do you feel about horror games?

 

Yeah, I don’t know about what the horror would be.

 

You’re alone on a starship, and it is very dark, and there are things crawling around.

 

Oh.

 

Doesn’t that sound fun?

 

Well, that would be fun, because that’s not real. I mean, I’m not afraid in my house. That’d be fun, because then that would get you.

 

Yeah, definitely.

 

Or not get you.

 

Yeah. Or you would be-

 

Yeah, I would do fantasy.

 

Okay, interesting. Alright, well thank you.

 

*My grandmother was born in Milwaukee, WI like me, but is 100% German.

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